Logelloop -creating structure and workflows.

[Andy]

I am interested in people’s methodology with Logelloop once the basics have been mastered.

Here is what came up today for me:

I noticed that the beginning loops of an improvisation are generally very short and repetitive. So after I ‘Multiply’, I often mute those initial loops.

But then later, it would be nice to maybe have one or two of those initial sounds in the larger structure of the longer composition. But having Multiplied, those initial loops are now even more repetitive. A drawable volume automation would allow selecting a section of the audio really easily..being able to draw in volume shapes on the Editor would actually take Logelloop to a whole new level. Is such a thing even possible in the future?

Or is there another way of automating volume on a loop after it is recorded? Is this where Macros come in?..but I am not clear how to do that with a macro.

Further: I notice there is Loops A B and C! How do people use these two extra loop systems in their workflow? Is this the way to create meta-structure?

And then there are Presets! and morphing from one to another..again, is this a way to build higher structures?

Logelloop is amazing and wonderful and it is quite open in it’s architecture- which is a good thing- but can create multiple possibilities for workflows.

I would be interested in people’s thoughts!

[Andy]

I should add that using an external timeline in a DAW is an option too. I have just slaved my DAW to Logelloop in AutoStartSlave mode and it works fine. Then in turn I can send cc changes from my DAW on a timeline to the Logelloop faders.

[Philippe Ollivier]

Hi Andy,
There are plenty of possible answers and I make a first post, but it’s possible that I make some other messages later…
I am afraid that using an external DAW is probably the more complicated solution, but yes, you will have a timeline…
The question is : is a timeline useful during a looping session and/or an improvised session?

First of all, I think of a particular function, nobody’s aware of…
Before a multiplication, you can click on the Normal button under the Multiply Button (on Commands window) and when the multiplication occurs, the first loop is not duplicated. OK, that’s a bit rude, but one possible solution! -)

>> “being able to draw in volume shapes on the Editor would actually take Logelloop to a whole new level. Is such a thing even possible in the future?”

Drawing a volume shapes on the editor, is not really in the Logelloop paradigm, I think. Or, at least, you should be able to store the draw and use it later with a loop of a different length. But, to be honest, we have the idea of a native plug to draw a form that you can drive the volume, speed, pan, etc. of the track where it is inserted. For now it is just on the to-do list, don’t expect to see it soon.

>> “Or is there another way of automating volume on a loop after it is recorded?”

The current simplest way of automatizing the Volume may be the LFO, you can connect a LFO to one or more tracks, with a very slow setting, you may even change the phase of one LFO, or delay it… and the faders will move very slowing changing the volume, pan, etc. of the current track. This a solution to edit the volume for slow changes.

If you want to edit inside the bar of the loop, you may use the Slicer…

Of course, you can connect the volume of the first track to a MIDI pedal and move it manually.

>> “Is this where Macros come in?”

Macros are in Logelloop to make everything personal. In this case, of course, you may use a macro.
The advantage of a macro is the fact that a duration is relative to the loop length and this is possible with variables.
For example, your loop length is expressed with the $current_loop_duration_ms$ variable.
So, you may decide to change the volume of the track in relation to the current Loop length.

For example, this macro will change the volume level in relation to the position of the playing head (assuming the speed is set to 1) :

//********************************** Begin of the macro *********************************
Declare int $high_level$ = -10
Declare int $low_level$ = -45

WaitBeginLoop
TrackVolume trk1 = $high_level$

DoRepeat
//Wait a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 4}

//Move the fader down during half a bar
During {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8} Reach $low_level$ TrackVolume trk1
WaitEndDurings
//Wait half a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8}
//Wait a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 4}
//Move the fader up during half a bar
During {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8} Reach $high_level$ TrackVolume trk1
//Wait half a bar to complete the loop…
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8}
WaitEndDurings
Sleep 10
WaitBeginLoop
While true
//********************************** End of the macro *********************************

There are plenty of such possibilities with macros.

Something I also like very much is to use random calculations to set the volume :

//********************************** Begin of the macro *********************************
WaitBeginLoop
DoRepeat
//Wait a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 4}

//Move the fader to a random level during half a bar
During {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8} Reach {randomScaleInt(-76, 0)} TrackVolume trk1
WaitEndDurings
//Wait half a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8}
//Wait a bar
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 4}
//Move the fader to a random level during half a bar
During {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8} Reach {randomScaleInt(-76, 0)} TrackVolume trk1
//Wait half a bar to complete the loop…
WaitDuration {$current_loop_duration_ms$/ 8}
WaitEndDurings
Sleep 10
WaitBeginLoop
While true
//********************************** End of the macro *********************************

>> “Further: I notice there is Loops A B and C! How do people use these two extra loop systems in their workflow?”

I do not often use A B C, so if someone else could say something about this way of construction loops, I will also be glad to read! -)

>> “Is this the way to create meta-structure?”

Yes! note that’s also possible to copy between loops with the Copy function. It is also possible to use CopyAfter to aggregate loops.

>> “And then there are Presets! and morphing from one to another..again, is this a way to build higher structures?”

Yes, you can use presets and you can recall your presets with the preset arranger or with a macro…
best regards,
Philippe

[Andy]

Hey Philippe

Sorry been away from my Logelloop rehearsals for a few weeks..

Wow this is a very helpful response with so much to absorb and experiment with.

“The question is : is a timeline useful during a looping session and/or an improvised session?”
I think the answer is sometimes. It digs deep into the heart of what improvisation is (at what point does improvisation become composition?) and I suppose for me there is an element of wanting to create ‘repeatable structure’ and that is where a timeline may be useful.
But then everything you then say is very interesting in this regard: a plugin that drives volume and pan would indeed be useful…if I could tell it to do “this” over x amount of time in the way that automation curves in a DAW do.

“Of course, you can connect the volume of the first track to a MIDI pedal and move it manually” I have a Lemur and your template (greatly expanded now) to achieve something similar. Live control of Logelloop is very wonderful in general.

The slicer I do not yet know so I will look at it.

Macros- thanks for those..I will look at them closely.

Actually I have started to use A,B and C.. and there are many exciting possibilities here to make bigger structure.

Thanks Philippe

[Philippe Ollivier]

Hi Andy,

“But then everything you then say is very interesting in this regard: a plugin that drives volume and pan would indeed be useful…if I could tell it to do “this” over x amount of time in the way that automation curves in a DAW do.”

Yes, the idea is to connect the curve duration to the loop length. So, it will be possible, for example, to tell the curves will have a “x loops length duration”, as it is in the macro world. But this will be possible with graphical settings.

Philippe

[Andy]

Hi Philippe

That would be very interesting indeed.

[Andy]

Hi Philippe

The volume plugin-that would be very interesting indeed.

Andy

[Andy]

Actually there is a plugin called VolumeShaper from CableGuys which might do what we are talking about here, I’m just having a look at it now and will report back..
http://www.cableguys.com/volumeshaper.html

[Author]

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